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  • Published 28 Nov 2018

Left-Click Select by Default

As a user of Blender I know how to change the selection configuration. In 2.8 there will be First Launch Setup Screen to choose LCS or RCS. 2.8 splash screen and first launch setup screen

But the reality is that many people just want to try a software and just skip the splash screen. And they would have the problem of clicking and nothing happens.
If LCS is set by default, it would no longer talk about this topic, and would stop cataloging as "the most stupid thing on the planet" as Ton Roosendaal said in the interview with Andrew Price.

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52.5%

Development Status: Done

Upvote 21 Downvote 19
sebastianmroy
28 Nov 2018

27 Comments

martiner2808

I completely agree. Beginners do not know anything about why RCS is used in Blender, nothing about LCS vs RCS community battle. New users will leave the default settings when they first open. No one will customize the program, because they do not know what these settings are for. The ability to choose LCS or RCS on the splash screen does not make much sense, because new users do not know why they should make this choice. And yes, LCS should be on default.

3
alondan

@Axel Mening: 100% Agree, when I tried Blender a few years as soon as I ran into the Right click I uninstalled it as I didn't feel comfortable, I didn't realize it can be change it just made me dislike it. Luckily I got back to Blender and Loved it once I change to Left-Click. :)

2
deepdive

@alondan: But you came back and learnt to Right click. That's the main thing.

deepdive

@Axel Mening: All of us have been new users at some time, we all learnt the program and we now don't even think about it. We learnt so many other programs, all with their own devils and we survived.

deepdive

AT Last !!! Its over...... rejoice...... crack open the beer! Now we can get on and fix the rest of blender.

2
Lauloque

Now I want animation 2020

(and a cookie)

deepdive

@-L0Lock-: and everything nodes, animation nodes, and hell.... everything else!

martiner2808

I think 2.8 is a good time to make LCS on default. Why? 2.8 will attract a lot of attention, has already attracted. The number of people who want to try Blender for the first time will increase. The number of people who have tried Blender earlier but found it uncomfortable will also increase. And RCS can spoil the impression for a very long time. Because 2.8 is a major update and will give great hope to users, but a very big inconvenience in the form of RCS will still not be "fixed". If wait release 2.81 for making LCS on default, It may be a little late for a positive impression. Of course, no one is going to remove RCS from the hotkey presets. Of course there is a need to provide full support for the RCS. Only make LCS on default.

2
deepdive

@Axel Mening: How do you know that "people who want to try blender for the first time will increase"? Seems to me that users have been increasing for years.

1
IIIFGIII

I find this " right click " as default for such often action as select is kind of stupid solution to. At least because index finger is most common used finger on human hand, not middle or ring fingers. But here you will never find support in this. As I understand Blender old community wants to feel special and " right click " is part of this. This theme is such kind of taboo here. To raise it - to get a negative. Changing default settings takes less than minute...

2
sebastianmroy Author

@forestgumpovu4: I agree

deepdive

@forestgumpovu4: I don't need to feel special. Every program has its own default settings that conflict with setting from other programs. Adobe has conflicts and differences even within its own apps. So whats the difference between Blender and every other program out there?

1
betmen

@forestgumpovu4: About Blender’s Rightclick Select and the reasons for it vimeo.com/76335056

deepdive

Why is it that the only people in this thread are supporters of "left click select by default", where is everybody else? I think that the other side needs to get involved in this conversation other wise its just a club talking to itself.

For me and I think the majority of blender users new and old this is a non issue. We learnt to right click AND left click and its not a problem, and never really was. My belief is that there are far more important issues in blender and bigger improvements to be made that are really important to make the program more useful and more usable.

So other side.... is this worth talking about?

1
sebastianmroy Author

@Eric: This is important, as important as other problems, RCS has caused frustration to many people, it is a non-standard UX pattern, many users have been lost, because when they tested Blender for the first time with LCS and did nothing, they left Blender. I include myself. But I repeat many people and studies that use Autodesk products catalog as "stupid software" when I try to show them Blender, just because they can not click. And the arguments for using RCS are very few. That's why no software in the world is interested in this UX pattern, because it does not solve anything.

I can name some disadvantages:

  1. what has already been said, it is not intuitive
  2. you lose the contextual menu that is super useful and fast
  3. It is not consistent, because it depends on what I have to select I must press RC or LC
  4. If you use pen, you have to change the configuration every time you enter blender

I can not find strong advantages:

  1. Avoid the carpeano tunnel (there is no scientific documentation that RCS avoid this, besides for users who do not work 8 hours a day on a computer it loses importance)
  2. You can select UI elements that overlap by choosing LC or RC (in other softwares you simply do not have overlap elements of the UI)
  3. You can use the 3d cursor as a main tool (many users consider it an imprecise tool and that it adds extra steps, in other software if you want to modify the origin you do it directly with position gismos, etc)

And mainly experienced Blender users know where to change the configuration.

1
deepdive

@sebastianmroy: Good points. I Only use a tablet now and actually don't have a mouse any more. I must admit though that I don't seem to have to change the pen configuration every time I enter blender. I can switch between Blender, Photoshop and After effects just fine.

I actually find a mouse a very frustrating and limiting input device and I haven't used one on my computer for about 12 years now.

As I said above I wish there were more people in here from the Other side. It seems to me that there are two polarized groups with a brick wall in the way. As I said for me its a non issue but that's just me and I would not care (for myself) which way blender went. I am open to any change that makes blender better.

I am afraid this issue may have become a tad too emotional and both sides may already be at war. What do you think?

Lauloque

The fact that people get used to it, is biased. It isn't a valuable data to know if RCS is a good thing or not. It doesn't take into account what portion of users actually enjoy it or not, nor what proportion switched to LCS or abandoned Blender, or forced themselves to use RCS (and within that, there is also a need to know why. Is it because Blender doesn't work properly with LCS anyway or because every tutorial and documentation uses RCS, or ...?) Also, because people do use RCS and do find some pros to it, doesn't mean there aren't issues with that.

At the end of the day, the fact is: if some people want to use RCS (no matter what proportion they represent), they can anyway. But you can't say the same for LCS because the current LCS isn't functional for now. It's being worked for 2.8 though.

Up to 2.7 there was no way to a new user to either understand at a glance what's going on nor how to do the very simple thing of selecting (it's just the n°1 basic thing you learned to do with LC from your first second on a computer until Blender).
I see everywhere people saying from their blenderchair that people willing to learn new software should do some research and find some docs, ... I will tell my boss he should have read the hugging manual first when he needed to use Blender in the middle of a production with an already settled pipeline and a harsh deadline incoming. A simple thing as selecting shouldn't require anything, it's not rocket science. Either the basic feature behaves as in other softwares do, either the software provides the information clearly from the first second, as well as a way to switch to a more conventional behavior. AND the conventional behavior should actually work and not penalize the user for choosing it.

Now for the first time in 23 years since Blender's creation, this is moving. They are adding a new splash screen for the first startup indicating the RCS/LCS with a switch to choose from, they are reworking the LCS so it becomes functional (and even more usable than RCS and the new active tool system IMHO).
Maybe after all that, people will change their mind. Because more people will switch from the first startup without any questioning. Because LCS will become more reliable, maybe even more than RCS. Because after all, the only valuables arguments for RCS is not having to use RC to select itself, but the way Blenders function have been split between the two mouse buttons.

yeah that's one of those stuff among many that blender does not like the others -___- ... I am also for LMB click select by default, I am also for an outliner that would behaves the same way as the windows/gnome file explorer...

1
deepdive

@mfx: Same for photoshop, after effects, Davinci, Apple OS, Windows, Word.... etc, etc, etc. Why is it that ALL programs are different from each other in some way! Should be a law against it.

2
Lauloque
1
sebastianmroy Author

@-L0Lock-: Pablo said that in 2.8 Blender will continue with RCS as the default

Lauloque

If you read the whole thing and debating around, you will understand that as of for now, LMB is not operational yet. So as long as LM isn't ready, we can't really consider to put it as default.

1
sebastianmroy Author

Thanks to those who voted positively, extremely sad results. Blender created problems where they do not exist. No video editor has a problem with the selection in the timeline. I'm 37 and I never had pain in my finger. With RCS you lose contextual menus that are super useful and fast. This shows a lack of self-criticism. If RCS would be useful, many softwares would have taken the concept, this is just someone's whim.

Lauloque

BTW have you tested LMB select on the latests 2.8 builds ? RMB is used for opening the "specials menu" (previously called via <kbd>W</kbd>). LMB does selection + active tool. Which is nice IMO, and closer to other softwares behaviors like Maya/3DS.

1
sebastianmroy Author

@-L0Lock-: Thanks, I just saw it. This is going to help a lot of people, studios and universities give Blender a chance.

deepdive

@sebastianmroy: I'm 56 and I have never had a pain in my finger... I use a tablet. If you are still mousing in video editing consider a tablet.

1
deepdive

Hi ya. Funny thing really, or maybe its just that I am 56 years old and have had to put up with learning new software since playing on our brand new cutting edge TSR-80 at school. Every single piece of software, every OS..... every lawn mower, every drill, toaster etc, has something new you have to learn or get use to. In America they drive on the Left hand side of the road, if your from Australia you just have to get use to it. I came to blender 8 years ago and it took me about 30min to get use to selection. Actually that was the easiest thing to have to learn. 30 min to get use to the new way of selection and another 8 years to get use to using the rest of blender! Oh no... 2.8 Ahhhhhhh