* @ThinkingPolygons * I didn't downvote this, but I'm not sure what the proposal is trying to rectify or a path to rectify it. It doesn't even acknowledge why it's an issue to copy other software implementations or propose a creative solution. Basically it's saying "Let me talk about other software implementations as direct design decisions to developers" But ton said "no" weeks ago and this post is probably not going to change that (no matter how many upvotes) for deep reasons. If not for copyright reasons maybe a few high level contributors require them to not reference other non-free software.

If you want to inspire development on any other platform other than direct development channels it's still allowed. If, as you say, there's a fear that one day it isn't allowed you're free to crack open K&R and start reading up on how to implement things exactly like other software yourself.

* @Denis Perchenko * downvoting makes the post disappear. which is bad. people need to know about that idiotic restriction so they don't waste time making suggestions that will end up being removed.

* @ThinkingPolygons * Actually I am one of those " fools ". Because this topick and it's title looks too panic stupid.

You think like child. After 2.8 release and fast grow up big corporations may saw in Blender some real competitor. In today's world such corporate sharks like Autodesk, Adobe, Foundry can easily use " law " to find reasons to suing BF for money, BIG BIG MONEY... Such things can easily kill BF. And it may has sense to limit some things to keep BF, we all love, safety from such greedy bitches...

If Ton said that we need some restrictions and rules, I think he know something more then us. Blender is his child, he know better....

What we all don't need is a panic. What we need is some discussion about clear reasonable borders.

* @IIIFGIII * Stop ass-licking BF, it will not do you any good. trust me.

Bullshit is bullshit.

* @ThinkingPolygons * Ass licking BF? All that BF exist only because some Ton Roosendaal, somewhere in the past, started making his own software. Not me, not you... If any man in the world can talk about how Blender development should look like - it's him.

Not f***g you, whoever you are!!!!

* @IIIFGIII * watch your mouth, son. don't get me started. I'm not your typical blender fanboy

* @-L0Lock- * Reproduce here what was deleted , please. It interesting to see what exactly Brecht mean by " not just screenshots that are not allowed, detailed explanation of the implementation in other applications should not be posted here either."

"You can write a new comment with just explanations of how you think Blender should work." But sometimes, some things can't be described somehow different than they can be described...

The thing is, I have no access to my comment and I have no backup.

* @-L0Lock- * No need for exact same text with same characters on same positions .. I asked " in general ". Do you not know at all and do not remember what was deleted?

Brecht kindly provided me a backup txt format, so here's what I posted (I just had to remake the "page layout" as it was lost in the backup, but the content is as is)

Start of original comment

I think it might be interesting to see how Maya made his keymap editor. It's not perfect, it has some cool ideas we could take inspirations from and make an awesome hotkey editor everyone will be jealous of.

youtu.be/VhQm7ID17IQ

What I think is interesting here are the "Edit Hotkeys for" and "Search by" menus. Or more precisely what's in them.

First things to note:

Maya doesn't provide a list of shortcuts, but rather a list of "everything that can be hotkeyed". I think that's one first thing we could do, it seems clearer to me, the user sees at a glance what's possible to do, if he wants to key something new, he doesn't have to guess the name from nothing because the emphasis is first on Context and then on the Comma name, properly sorted among other commands. Just see the list and hopefully find what you want thanks to the good sorting, and other similar commands you already know would be near it as well. Though the downside would be a massive commands lists, that's where the menus come to play.

The keyboard viewer displays the available keys dynamically depending on the modifier keys you hold down, but also depending on the list display you use (more on that later). This, combined with the current ideas of having pushable buttons to emulate modifier keys and to show the keys actions on the display, would be insanely flexible and efficient I think. Using the "Edit hotkeys for" menu, it lest the user access the different shortcuts by essentially displaying different lists representing a different mindset:

• Menu items: lists the menu items we can find the main Maya window. Unlike Blender, Maya has a lot of menus in its main window, editors have very few. In Blender, that idea could be used for the main window's menus, but also for the editors' menus.

• Editors: allows to choose an editor and see any hotkeyable command from that editor when not already in the Menu Items lists. When you chose an editor, the keyboard displays only the keys available on that editor since editors don't share every key.

• Other Items: basically anything that's not already in the other categories

• Other scripts: keys you can assign to custom commands you can create in the hotkeys editor using Python or Mel script. This on itself would basically replace the need for addons that only consist of creating operators just to make new hotkeys. And let the advanced user make their own jam. And we all love that, don't we?
  

As I said it's not perfect, plus the way Blender is made is a little different to Maya.
But I think it could be a good idea to have the "menu items" and "editors" approach.

• Menu items: lists every single element from the main window's menus in a "common" category, and each editors' menus in their own category. Allowing the user to have the full story of what's possible. And all this respecting the menus & submenus layout. Ideally would take into account custom menus created by addons.

• Editor: lists every "global" command in a "global" category, and every editor specific command into editor specific categories. Somewhat similar to the current list, we could keep the current sub-categories for modals for instance.

• Custom Commands: commands we could have in a little basic editor, with sorting & naming options, pyhon inputs (but with syntax highlighting please, Maya failed at this very basic concept).

• Legacy: basically the current list. As I guess people will prefer that one for X or Y reason they can explain better than I.

Another thing that could be done better than in Maya: displaying items every list it can fit!

It will create redundancy, but the idea of the different lists is only to provide different approaches that better suit some people or mindsets or tasks. The main goal is to let the user find what he needs after all.
I.E. two people want to change the hotkey for the Add object menu. the first one could think :

that's an editor specific key, I'll search that in the Editor's command list

And the other could think:

that's in the Add menu at the top, so I'll search that in the Menu Items list".

Ideally, both should find the command. And if they change it in one list, it should be changed in the other list. Actually, aren't different commands, they are just different sorting systems.

The "search by" menu is basically what we already have. Except that when set to "hotkey", we don't write the hotkey name, we just hit the key or a keys combination and it finds every shortcut it can correspond to, and in any "edit hotkey for". This would avoid user to guess keys names they don't know in English, and reduce the search time since it's faster to just hit the keys you want instead of writing their names down, especially key combinations.

I hope some ideas attract some people here.

* @-L0Lock- * OMG man :) I don't expect so much. Did you write it whole day?

What I see problematic in case of copyrights - in general it was good description of how things work in Maya, but " Blender " mantioned much less. I'm not a lawyer ,but probably, too much of such talks on dev resources may be used by some Autodesk to start copyright lawsuit. Like " here, look, they not invent things, only steal ideas... " Then BF is not some billionaries which can just throw few millions in to Autodesk face...

All this stuff can be redescribed wihout any mantioning Maya... not as " in software X some feature Y work ... " but instead " I propose to add feature A and it should do some B " + some Blender photoshop mockups. It will take more time but from other side, while working on it, basic mechanics can be redesigned to work even better.

* @IIIFGIII * Yes you can always make suggestions from scratch, that is absolutely true.

But it's also way easier to start from a firm ground that already exists and take lessons from it.
Not being able to reference other software as you like also means that you have to hand-make mockups all the time if you want to be efficient and have more chances for your suggestions to be developed. And mockups take way more time and effort than screenshots.
You're kind of forced to present suggestions based on vague assumptions that people have to believe in without anything to back it up because you can't elaborate up to the most interesting point which live examples can be.

Not the end of the world for sure, but that will be a pain in the ass for the people who want to invest time into this.

I guess I'm just frustrated my screenshots are good for rotting in my imaginary red wine cave.

* @-L0Lock- * well if they will take the timeand effort to develop the request; some one could expend time and effort in making a mockups. we can start by doing the same that we ask for someone else to do. And that is expend time and effort in a request.

* @ThinkingPolygons * I don't agree. I think people just need to articulate needs in a specified manner. Being inspired by other software is one thing, replicating software entirely is another. The only outcome you can get by referencing other software is B-grade replication. Don't get me wrong, blender is YOUR software, you're free to fork it and re-make a clone of any autodesk/adobe/other product if you like-- but asking other developers to do it for you because you want a free version of software x with certain patented design features is entirely a different thing and will actually hurt core blender development and ultimately blender as a whole.

But yeah those are developer channels, AFAIK you're free to talk about other software in any other BF channel that isn't directly pivotal to blender development (blender artists or blender today for instance). However the best feature requests state a problem and propose a solution without having to reference other non-open software. Blender isn't that software. It's better because it's your software, not software licensed to you on a monthly/yearly basis.

* @Denis Perchenko * Feel free to disagree, but this nasty restriction will not do any good to them, trust me. Also keep in mind, 90% of blender is copied from the big 3d apps out there. So all this bullsh*t makes no sense to me.

Next attack will be on this site (RCS) hahaha, and therefore no more cool suggestions.

* @ThinkingPolygons * Even if it become true - cool suggestions not equal asking to just copy something from somewhere as is.

Nowadays after 2.8 release and grow fast - here comes lot of " I came from somewhere yesterday, so can you copy feature X same as in this somewhere " users. Must just asking to copy stuff without any idea descriptions, mockups, how it can look in Blender implementation, etc.

Clearly the reason why the BF deletes comments quoting other softwares isn't just about quoting other softwares, because it's been done many times before without any issue and will be done in the future. I guess it's more about how you "use" your quotes.

But as long as there's no clear line between what the BF considers constructive and what's to be deleted, we can't really du mutch.

Not the best analogy tbh

* @-L0Lock- * well I was trying to make a point across that people is asking to much and when something is ask for them to do they just riot about it but yes I get it is not the best way to put in in words tbh. how ever I will use the card of the lenguaje, is more difficult for my to express in English that in Spanish.
SO what I trying to say in the worst posible way is that if someone request something just no make reference to other 3d software that will cause Copyright issues is a lot of ways to explain the idea.

* @-L0Lock- *

* @IIIFGIII * I know. I'm a litte brat.

* @-L0Lock- * You forgot Adobe, Foundry, Substance, Quixel different soft and Autodesk has much more to list.... :) How can u skip Houdini and C4D?

* @IIIFGIII * I purposely made an incomplete list to annoy people. And it worked.

I told you I'm a brat.

* @-L0Lock- *

How does it feel now, huh? 🤣

* @ThinkingPolygons *

VERY SAD for the future of Blender

And not laughing.

* @-L0Lock- *
you sound like you're drowning in a glass of water, have a snickers dude! and chill

* @gerardo.mexicano * your comments on that topic don't seem more chilled out to me

* @yasharjk * someone decide to make drama about the request of not made explicit reference to other's 3d software when asking for features coz could cause copyright issues. Coz comment will be deleted to avoid legal issues later on! and they just are lazy to do mockups