Delete without menu
Hi,
I was a 3D max user and now changed to blender. I've tried to delete a vertex but was surprised with a menu. In 3D max it would just delete whatever I'm using without a menu.
Does 2.8 have this basic thing or future 2.9 maybe?
I've seen this but it doesn't work for me: blender.stackexchange.com/questions/122826/how-disable-delete-options-menu-in-blender-2-8/157569
Also saw this: blender.org/forum/viewtopic.php
49 Comments
Yes it should be by default....blender has become a bag of addons....even the simplest actions need addons...that's y It is not industry standard
* @arkoprobhogupta23 * Man, actually there are no real industry standards; consider the up axis, which one is standard Z or Y? or consider Zbrush and houdini they are all industry monsters still with their complexities and odd behavior... In Zbrush you need some plugins only for changing some shortcuts..
* @yasharjk * but still they require very less addons as compared to blender
* @arkoprobhogupta23 * I agree.. it is a more or less trade off. Blender's addons on the other hand are more accessible and more unified. And blender's odd behavior can be changed and customized easier.. Once i tried to change Zbrush navigation shortcuts there was no easy way and couldn't find the plugin for that. In houdini if you press middle in node editor you can pan the view but if you accidentally press middle on a node a properties popup will show and pan is cancelled. I tried to change this behavior and was unable to find an easy way...
gumroad.com/l/Smart_Delete
I love the current delete menu.
* @thinsoldier * I'm guessing you don't use a tablet often.
* @wondraknathan * I don't but when I do I tend to have one hand on the keyboard anyway.
* @thinsoldier * Same - left on keyboard, right on tablet. This tablet buttons always worse than just keyboard.
* @IIIFGIII * * thinsoldier * Hey guys I hear you, yeah I agree that in the case of deleting that's a decent enough workflow, it's just that Blender doesn't in general gear people towards left hand only keymapping (like video games or Mayas QWER), many of the most frequently used hotkeys like F12, the bracket keys, and period on the Numpad, are on the far other side of the keyboard (along with the combos like ctrl P, ctrl L, extra). Which implies using the right hand if your not going to waste the time to look down at the keyboard, and if you do look down then chances are you already moved your pen canceling the menu. I know it sounds like I'm being nit picky going UX design, but now that Blender has as solid UI, its fun to dream about a consistent UX as well. So at very least I would have my vote on a default PIE menu until Blender gets to the smart/auto/context-aware work flows.
* @wondraknathan * Dev people read this thread or do we need to also write what we wrote here also in the dev section?
* @___11 * It would need a lot of upvotes, and I think this topic gets overshadowed by clickbait since there is no real way to show good UX since the point of a good UX in principle is to not need to have anything shown, and any long-winded explanations of there need and effectiveness fits under the TLDR category ironically to the people that want it the most lol. Blender has been a frontier of many great UX designs so it's sad to see it when it goes unnoticed and even backward in this case, but I guess for as many gains as we have had, one or two losses isn't that bad. You may be able to tag them if you know their user names as long as you don't think your spamming them.
* @wondraknathan * Hmm... Or maybe we can use marketing idea ;) I'll post the idea picture here...
* @wondraknathan * Done. Maybe with this we can make something. youtu.be/6oHrHKuedso
I think the mesh delete shortcut should operate like dissolve shortcut which operates on selection mode. On the other hand the delete menu offers useful options and comes really handy. So there should be two shortcuts one for delete by mode and without prompting and another for delete menu. I've set X to delete by mode and Shift X to delete menu. Unfortunately there was no mesh.delete_mode operator like mesh.dissolve_mode so i created that myself. That operator should be added to solve this problem. {attachment Untitled-1jpg} here is my code:
* @yasharjk * Actually - not the solution. Problem here not in delete menu/PIE, problem in too different workflows. Max user want to go to vertex mode to select vertex, to delete vertex, because this is only what Max user can and know. In Blender user can delete/dissolve vertex from edge/face mode, do limited dissolve, etc. and for all this options we have menu/PIE.
* @IIIFGIII * Those are really useful options and new users should be aware of these features, i use them often too and found that annoying and confusing when came from max too. But we use redundant delete more often than 'delete only edges and faces' and it is overkill to see a menu every time we hit X when we don't need other options. So i think it can be a solution to separate shortcuts for quick delete and delete options just like dissolve which can be quickly done by Ctrl X and can be done in delete menu, and why not delete treated same as dissolve. Do you use Ctrl X for dissolve or use delete menu? After all these are all preferences and can not be generalized, one solution doesn't fit all preferences.
* @yasharjk * Default menus really suck. I use IPE's. Partially default and lot of my own made with PME addon. In most cases things happenet not slower than just hotkey. Just press PIE key, and I know I need to move left/right/etc.. I don't even look at this PIE.
But instead of just hotkey with one action on one button - simple PIE keep 8 actions on one button. All the transform orientations, snaps, pivot points, visualization features, sharpness, seams, and lot other stuff - all on PIEs right under left hand.
* @IIIFGIII * PIEs take time to build in the motion memories but this would be a better option than the current default.
What about making of all UX ideas of the community in one place/post? So it will be easy to upvote the UX idea and to make it the best UX?
* @___11 * well, it will make a messy post with multiple ideas mixed in, people might not agree/want every single one of them, and I'm not sure it's allowed in the first place considering how often moderators ask complex posts to be splited for each idea.
It appears backspace isn't a used shortcut in the 3D viewport. X could remain as the delete menu & backspace could be the menu-less delete button.
I don't have a numpad btw, so there's no delete key on my keyboard. I only have backspace.
* @BlenderSplendor * EXACTLY or the delete key since that would be consistent with every other existing program. No one has delete menus.
I think it's already debated, for now I use pie menus (just turn on addon "3D Viewport Pie Menus") and turn on delete pie. If you remember positions it is crazy fast... hope it helps
* @rabatin.dominik *
* @IIIFGIII * When using this with x I saw dissolve make the edge delete instead of dissolve.
agree
What do you say guys about promoting this thread with a video to the dev people or other users that maybe want to also improve the UX of Blender?
* @___11 * What I have to say - I also switched from Max ( I started learning when Blender was 2.78...) and I see no problems with delete. How it work in Max is limited/primitive. If u need looking for speed - use PIE's....
After so much time here still no votes ( I didn't give to it no + nor - ) and it said more then enough about all of this.
* @___11 * There already were extensive keymapping discussions for 2.8 and I think we are looking at a larger fundamental concept then just x so yeah I think its decent enough with the complementing workaround for now. Things like this will happen naturally over time, probably after touch and VR integration while the new workflows at there entirety are fresh on people's minds. Steady as it goes.
Edit: Here are two more good UX proposals, they are great ideas with a good reference, though I think a forum is a convoluted medium for quickly getting UX concepts across to the general public, it still may be worth upvoting if you agree.
blender.community/c/rightclickselect/Vhfbbc/ blender.community/c/rightclickselect/J3fbbc/
* @wondraknathan * That's cool. I have both pen and mouse. It would be great to have all the options so the user can choose what he needs at that moment.
YES, the current delete systems is broken when working with a Wacom tablet, once pressing X and going back to the PopUp, it will disappear because the curser doesn't start back in the same exact position (putting the pen down to use the mouse, and then go back to the pen is not a solution for as consistent as this operation has to be used). Honestly, it's humiliating comparing this to Maya (no I'm not a Maya user but I can admit when someone else does it better), it will delete whatever you are hovering over even if not selected.
The best existing solution is this auto delete addon that detects the right option. youtube.com/watch github.com/Darcvizer/Auto-Delete-for_Blender
This really need to be set as default (PIEs are better but still second to this), I don't understand how a menu was accepted when deleting a vert, literally 90% of that menu should be greyed out (at least be transparent and grey out the options so you don't waist 5 more runs of troubleshooting). Sorry for ranting but no pop-ups use to be my biggest selling point in convincing others to Blender. For as consecutive as deleting is used, this has been the most consecutive slap in the face to tablet users since Blender update. The goal of hotkeys is to reduce clicks, not increase so at very least can we be honest and call these coldkeys?
@___11 Add pictures, I glanced over this 50 times because I am a visual person (as are all people that hate menus and text). I'm sure you missed out on 40 or so upvotes. Everyone is obviously very opinionated on this subject with different remedies, so I think its common knowledge the default needs work.
* @wondraknathan * You can also press D with the Delete menu open to confirm the deletion (the letter D is underlined, which indicates the menu item's hotkey). Admittably this is not ideal, but it does solve the pen problem you have described for the time being, until a better solution is found.
* @victorkarp * Thanks, yeah it's better than nothing. It's just sad to see the community complacent on the amount of clicks this takes when guys like MasterXeon work feverishly to reduce them, but at least we have Pablo D, I'm sure if we give him enough time he will help us out on this one.
* @wondraknathan * Yea also missed at the start that I've got replies till I refreshed the page :D Also installed "Auto-Delete-for_Blender" but cannot see preferences to change delete key. "delete" gives me the regular menu.
* @___11 * I simply use 0 since I reinstall the addon on so often, to put it as delete I think you have to unbind the original keymap :( that is why I am so relentless on improving the core.
* @wondraknathan * Do you know what to uncheck in the keymap?
* @___11 * {attachment Annotation_2020-07-14_122743jpg}{attachment Annotation_2020-07-14_122650jpg} Sure, I actually suggest x for ergonomics, go to Blender preferences/KeyMap click Key-Bindings, search x, and mesh will be about one scroll down.
* @wondraknathan * :( Didn't work for me.
* @___11 * Strange this always works for me, find the addon in preferences, and check what the default key is, it might be deleted.
* @wondraknathan * The problem that I cannot see a default key for the "Auto-Delete-for_Blender" I'm using Blender 2.83.1 if that's the problem.
* @___11 * {attachment Annotation_2020-07-14_201317jpg}{attachment Annotation_2020-07-14_201434jpg} I use the same and 2.9 so it should work. Sorry you have to deal with what ever it is, best wishes man!
* @wondraknathan * Thanks. I cannot see the "preferences" of the addon for some reason.
Hello, have you tried the shorcut Control X. It calls the same function you wrote, I think... Have a nice day !
* @rigotux * ctrl x is a form of dissolve, not a deletion.
* @-L0Lock- * Also tried "ctrl x. Didn't delete or dissolve the edge.
* @___11 * Now saw that the edge is not connected to another side, so it will not dissolve or delete.
* @___11 * Sorry, I misunderstand. I apologize.
Just delete or smart delete addons..)