Merge time based value changers
Hello everyone. I think there are too many time/keyframe value changers, in fact we have:
- NLA
- Dopesheet
- Timeline
- Graph editor
My idea is to replace all of them with automation clips in the Video Sequence Editor. 'automation' is a term I borrowed from Digital Audio Workstations, represents a value which changes on time.
So, when a new automation is created, it could be repeated by simply copy/paste (like you'd do now in NLA).
Let me know.
13 Comments
This proposal represents a massive change in Blender, and as such, it really requires quite a bit more thought. How would animators access all the tool they need in a unified timeline that has the functionality of the NLA, Dope Sheet, Graph Editor, and Sequencer?
This proposal needs descriptions and detailed mock-ups. As it stands right now, it's very incomplete and not particularly actionable.
* @Jason van Gumster * The idea is to have something like the F-Curves to define whatever value change, then put them in the VSE to use them.
Let's pretend I have a walk cycle, I put it in the VSE and I make a longer clip, representing whole mesh translation and rotation. Since the walk cycle is shorter, I'll loop it and presto: you got a scene of a walking character.
That's what NLA is for AFAIK.
Let's pretend you want to create the walk cycle in the first place : you need to have a dope sheet and a graph editor. Not just one of them. How would you merge all those editors together ? That's what we want to understand.
* @-L0Lock- * I'll think about this and get back
* @chicochetal * isn't it possible to do this in 2 fcurves? If so, I ran out of ideas
* @chicochetal * No. You need a dope sheet displaying your keys in a simple forma and allowing to quiclky managing them through time. You need a graph editor which can display as mutch curves as you need. you need the NLA editor to manage finished animations, cycle them, combine them, make montage of animations like in video editing, ...
And all this with all the tools for editing keyframes, interpolations, extrapolations, time framing, display filters, .... I don't see how you could combine those without either creating an unusable mess or removing feature.
The only editor which could be merged, are the timeline and the dope sheet. Because a dope sheet could be a timeline displaying keyframes (or not displaying them).
* @-L0Lock- * There's one way that they could be merged that I'd thought about quite a while ago, but it would be a major overhaul and I'm not convinced it's a great idea.
Basically, everything starts at the NLA. An NLA strip could be expanded (kind of like Tabbing into a Metastrip in the VSE or a group node in the compositor) and a Dope Sheet view would descend down from the strip. And then, for any individual channel in the Dope Sheet expansion, you could expand that to have a Graph Editor view descend from that channel.
The problem, of course, is that restricts the user to a very specific workflow and makes it difficult to do large scale timing adjustments like we're currently used to. So it would be tidy and organized, but I'm not sure it would be a very pleasant way to work.
* @Jason van Gumster * That's quite a lot of issues, and not small ones IMHO. And it requires lots of clicks just to get the needed display, and I'm also concerned about how it would handle the tools coming with each editor.
It makes me think about Unreal Engine's Sequencer. It's basically a dope sheet, each object has tracks (like in the dopesheet) except you can also add "animation tracks" which are animation strips working like Blender's NLA strips. And on top of that, there is a button to switch to a graph editor on the selected track.
But it works mostly because it's really basic tools in there, it's barely usable for placing objects and layout purposes. Actual advanced animations are imported from Maya/3ds and placed as strips.
To me, a more compact & usefull layout for an "animation editor" with everything in would be:
You do are aware that those "time based value changers" are not just meant to change the current frame right ? They each have tools and can't really be mixed up without losing their initial purposes and making some people's job actually impossible.
I strongly agree with this direction. After Effects, Unity, and a Blender Addon called Blender Sensei do a much better job consolidating these. For one, the timeline and Dope sheet can and should be merged with no problem at all. Usually, the graph editor is added with a toggle but The NLA strips can be merged as well but that would take some work.
You're right, it's my fault and this is a very bad idea. Unfortunately, I posted with almost no experience and nearly no thinking.
* @18101982.ia * The good news Ubisoft's Animation studio is now supporting Blender, so there is a lot higher hope for this to be revamped, fingers crossed.
* @wondraknathan * WOW, Let's hope!